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Dad kills daughter's attacker posted: 06/20/12 at 12:31 AM
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Warning, this could be disturbing, it pertains to the sexual assault of a little girl.
So, I'm just watching the story. I don't know every detail...
Four year old little girl, in Texas, is at a family function, goes out to feed chickens (I think) and is attacked. Her Dad happens to come along as this man is roughing up his little girl. The attacker has his pants down, his genitals exposed. Dad "pummels" (I quote the reporter) him to death on the spot. Dad then makes a frantic 911 call desperately wanting help for the attacker because he can see that he's dying.
Dad isn't being changed with anything.
What do you think? Should dad be charged?
Attacker had previous assault, harassment(?) and fraud(?) charges. He had 9 addresses in 5 different states in the last few years. His employer was a Catholic charity and when the address was searched, it came to a junk yard. Doesn't sound like a real stand up guy, just sayin'.
Do you think the attacker deserved what he got? Would you have done the same?
What do I think? I'm impressed. I've heard so many stories of people defending themselves and being locked away. I think dad's reaction was natural and he doesn't deserved to be punished. I wish everyone with a reasonable self defense (child defense) story could have this opportunity.
Should dad be charged? I don't think so. He protected his 4 year old child as she was about to be raped, possibly killed. I can say that I wouldn't be thinking very clearly either.
Did the attacker deserve it? I'm glad he's not going to be able to do this to anyone else. Chances are, if he was put in jail, he would have been released and able to do this again.
Would I have done the same? Damn right! I can say now that I wouldn't intentionally kill the person. But, I wouldn't be thinking about that...I would LOSE MY MIND! I wouldn't be concentrating on seeking justice. I can see how he took action immediately. If my daughter (who will be 4 next month) was being attacked, I wouldn't stop to call 911. I would be saving her at whatever cost necessary.
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Love is not an emotion, it's a decision.
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posted: 06/20/12 at 2:44 AM
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There is this comedian guy here that became a dad for the first time. A journalist asked him how it felt to be a father. He answered he had never in his life thought he could take away someone's life, but now he knew he would in a heart beat. It summarizes how I feel.
I think in circumstances like these the justice system needs to consider that it was this man's instinct to protect his child. The same instinct that would have had him run into blazes to save her.
If I had done the same? I would not even think if it's wrong or right. I would do what ever is necessary to protect my child.
If he should be charged? No, to me it's self defense. Attacking our child should be considered like attacking us.
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posted: 06/20/12 at 2:49 AM
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I heard the case was now being investigated as a homicide. That doesn't mean he's been charged with homicide, only that its under investigation. It seems likely to me that some sort of charge will be brought, perhaps aggravated manslaughter. But I think a jury would go easy on him, if it comes to trail. Hopefully the prosecution will allow him to plea bargain to a lesser charge, and maybe just get time served or probation.
To answer your question, I would have done the same thing as this dad. I find it extremely difficult to muster any sympathy towards a child rapist. I think, in fact, that I would have killed the guy purposefully. But that I feel I may be capable of that scares me. That man had a life, a story, a family, someone who loved him. In getting to know his story, I might be able to feel some empathy. But without that, in the heat of the moment, I think I could have killed just like this father did.
I have read an interesting book about paraphelias, and how terribly those people afflicted with these unnatural urges suffer. I have great sympathy for them, that they have to go their entire lives being attracted only to children, knowing it is wrong, and knowing they'll never, ever be able to have a normal, healthy loving reslationship. There are people who go their whole lives never touching a child, always holding themselves back. That's a lot of willpower, but it can be done, especially with psychological help and drugs. Considering that, those who indulge their unnatural urges are especially vile, and I think undeserving of much sympathy. Deserving of death....maybe not. But definitely undeserving of much sympathy.
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Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another
~My opinions change with new information.~
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posted: 06/20/12 at 3:14 AM
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It bothers me SO much that someone would harm a child like this.  The psychological scars that they carry after such experiences can NEVER be taken back at all. Ugh.
I don't know if I have it in me to kill another human being, but I think that individuals like this should NOT be protected and given preferential treatment by the prison system.
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posted: 06/20/12 at 5:22 AM
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I don't think the dad should be charged, as Gail said, it was essentially instinct. But as for whether the attacker "deserved" it? I don't know, I suppose that comes down to how one views the concept of justice. It seems to me most people think of justice in terms of what one "deserves" for one's crimes. In other words, its a punishment oriented conception of justice instead of one based on rehabilitation. Personally, I prefer the latter. To me, proper justice is administered when the decision benefits society at large in the broader scheme of things. Obviously when a justice system revolves around the process of rehabilitation as opposed to punishment, it provides the individual in question with a better opportunity of assimilating into society in the future and thereby becoming a productive citizen. Countries such as Denmark and Finland administers a vision of justice I've described and their crime rates seem to be doing much better than in the U.S. where its a punishment oriented system of justice. Interesting fact about the U.S., it has the the highest rate of incarceration and 25% of the world's prison population.
quote:
I have read an interesting book about paraphelias, and how terribly those people afflicted with these unnatural urges suffer. I have great sympathy for them, that they have to go their entire lives being attracted only to children, knowing it is wrong, and knowing they'll never, ever be able to have a normal, healthy loving reslationship. There are people who go their whole lives never touching a child, always holding themselves back. That's a lot of willpower, but it can be done, especially with psychological help and drugs. Considering that, those who indulge their unnatural urges are especially vile, and I think undeserving of much sympathy. Deserving of death....maybe not. But definitely undeserving of much sympathy.
One of the reasons these people never get help is because they obviously feel demonized. People automatically associate pedophilia with being a child molester. Lets also not forget how decades past people used to think gays were pedophiles. Politicians, throughout history, have hid behind the guise of "protecting our children" and other such emotional issues to gain a platform. The net result of such emotional outpouring is that these social ills never get addressed and understood in a scientific manner and not to mention other vast societal ills such as wealth inequality gets thrown to wayside because we have pedophiles to catch. It seems to me in the past decade or so, such issues have been used in our political arena even moreso as a shield against focusing on more prevalent problems.
Child molestation is an issue no doubt, an emotional issue at that. But lets at least try to address it in a rational manner or else not only will these problems continue to perpetuate, but we may find ourselves focusing on a single issue in an unbalanced manner.
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"A life with love will have many thorns, but a life without love will have no roses." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"I am persuaded that every time a man smiles - but much more so when he laughs - it adds something to this fragment of life."
- Laurence Sterne
"Wherever your life ends, it is all there. The advantage of living is not measured by length, but by use; some men have lived long, and lived little; attend to it while you are in it. It lies in your will, not in the number of years, for you to have lived enough."
- Michel de Montaigne
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posted: 06/20/12 at 6:00 AM
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| I realize that. One thing the book mentioned was that in most states, psychologists are required by law to report people who come in for treatment of pedophilia. That prevents people from seeking treatment. That needs to be changed.
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Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another
~My opinions change with new information.~
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posted: 06/20/12 at 6:26 AM
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I think many parents can relate to the blind rage that consumes them when their child is attacked. I think we'll find that most people find the father's reaction appropriate. Did he have to kill the guy? Maybe not, but I doubt that was his intent. He just follow his instincts which was to protect his daughter. Unfortunately for himself, he lost control and went overboard.
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What do you think? Should dad be charged?
I hope he isn't. I think this is a situation where the defense of a defenseless person has to be taken into consideration. The child cannot defend herself...so who's going to do it if not the parents?
quote:
Do you think the attacker deserved what he got? Would you have done the same?
He did deserve it. Preying on children must be the most vile act possible. In a roundabout way though, he's actually been put out of his misery. Now he won't have to fight the battle between his urges and not breaking the law.
If I found myself in a situation like this...I can say for sure that a beating would ensue. I don't think the guy would end up dead though....I don't have a history of having blackout rage....but I suppose when my child's safety is on the line...anything could happen.
The attackers death is a positive thing for all children and all parents with young children. One less predator out there. As others have stated...I also am very lacking in empathy towards the attackers plight and death. Yes he was/is sick, but until some sort of cure is found....what else can be done for these individuals?
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Pay attention to your partner. If you don't...somebody else will.
There are three sides to every story. Yours, theirs, and the truth.
MATH MADE EASY
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posted: 06/20/12 at 8:00 AM
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| *redacted, interpreted a post erroneously.
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"A life with love will have many thorns, but a life without love will have no roses." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"I am persuaded that every time a man smiles - but much more so when he laughs - it adds something to this fragment of life."
- Laurence Sterne
"Wherever your life ends, it is all there. The advantage of living is not measured by length, but by use; some men have lived long, and lived little; attend to it while you are in it. It lies in your will, not in the number of years, for you to have lived enough."
- Michel de Montaigne
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posted: 06/20/12 at 12:53 PM
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I think there is a difference between succumbing to your urges and violently attacking a little girl in the woods. Having to endure being violated is horrible, I wish it didn't to happen to anyone. But, I do think there is a difference between a man molesting a child and a violent crime. I don't think the victim's scars are different, being violated is being violated, it's dreadful. But, I think there is a great difference in the perpetrators. The molester is manipulative, considering their own urges and carrying out what they want to believe is a harmless act. The attacker/rapist is capable of violence, even murder, they will get what they want at any cost. They stalk and harass. This case, IMO, had all the makings of a violent crime.
This person was not someone succumbing to urges, IMO. He was twisted and a danger to society, children and adults. He belonged locked away for life. I don't think there is any amount of rehab that can change a person like this. As a parent, I can tell you that I'd want him locked away just in case.
I don't think punishment is great enough for people that violate anyone sexually, especially those who violate children. While I do agree that there should be greater rehabilitation efforts, I think there has to be punishment for crimes. I do understand that they are human beings. But, their urges negatively affect , sometimes ruin, lives. One reason society so negatively views these people, is because everyone is sick of the lack of justice. Often, repeat offenders are set free after a couple of months behind bars, if they go to jail at all. They are not rehabilitated or punished. They go into the jail system and leave more hardened criminals with possibly more "tools" then they had when they entered. I am then watching the news with my family and there is a warning that a pedophile, with a likelihood to reoffend has been released from prison, they ask us to be careful. I don't deserve to have to sleep with one eye open.
I was walking my children to school a couple of years ago. One daughter in junior kindergarten, one a baby in a stroller. A man walked by us with his genitals exposed. My first thought was that I should help him, I thought there was mental disability involved and I felt sorry. I turned around, unable to put it out of my mind, to find him looking back at me, smirking, touching himself. I didn't really know what to do. He didn't touch me. But, he just got a thrill out of exposing himself to my children, that's violating. I couldn't follow him, even at a safe distance, I had two kids with me. I went home and called the police. They were kind, they cared, they thanked me for calling and offered me any help that I needed. Then they told me that unless an officer witnesses an act like this, there is nothing that can be done to bring this person to justice. It's my word against his, lack of evidence. As a mother, as a member of society, a law abiding citizen, as a woman, that's incredibly frustrating. This person can take people's emotions into their own hands, but they have just as many rights as I do. It just doesn't seem fair. They cannot punish or rehabilitate him because they can't convict him of any crime. There was a slew of sexual violations for the rest of that day across the entire public transit system. I live in Toronto, that's pretty huge. This guy was on the subway getting his jollies at the expense of others for hours and there's not a thing that anyone can do about it because he wasn't caught on film and an officer didn't witness any crime. I think people like him are viewed so negatively due to the frustration of having to watch them continually getting away with negatively affecting people.
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Love is not an emotion, it's a decision.
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posted: 06/20/12 at 2:22 PM
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I don't beleive these people can be rehabilated.
We catch them, we put them in jail, we isolate them so they don't get beat up by the other inmates, it cost $80,000 per year to our government per inmate in our jail here in Canada. They have cable, Internet, gyms, schools, libraries, healthy meals, organized activities. They're medicated, get mental care around the clock.....they come out and do it again.
On the other end almost nothing is offered to the victims for their recovery. They have to fight with the system to get more than the 6 weeks counselling offered by the system.
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