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Who me? Defend age gap relationships? posted: 04/12/06 at 8:15 PM
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In the spirit of not wanting to hijack someone's thread, I thought I would move a current discussion over to a new thread.
I hope that this can remain civil, and we can maybe learn something from one another here, and perhaps think of things we haven't thought of before.
It has been mentioned that "people in generational gap relationships have some personal issues going on".
Now, without taking the head off of the messenger of that statement, let's try to discuss this issue.
I suppose the ultimate question is, why *this* person, out of anyone else in the world?
(And, we ALL have our issues. So, this isn't an indictment of anyone....at the moment.  )
Please though, let's try to keep it civil. We are all adults, in adult relationships, and we should be able to express ourselves as such.
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No matter how this all turns out...know that there is one man who loves you unconditionally darling.....unconditionally. ~LCM
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posted: 04/12/06 at 8:45 PM
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I think - but am open to mis respresentation here, the original poster of that question was in fact referring to the age old - AGE of the person involved in the AGR - and is it legal (which also differs worldwide) rather than mean it in a derogitory way in general.
IMHO - if it was in general, it's her issue and not a predjudice none of us in AGR ahve faced before.
From my perspective howeve, why I enjoy AGR and have forever. Now, we can put this down to my previous sexual abuse, my marriage that was no better, my life in general that has seen a lot of heartache OR we could see it as I do.
I grew up too fast, men my age irritate me, they don't have life experience - those that do, have handled it differently to me. They are BORING I need the intellectual stimulation of someone that is intelligent (which I could find in my age group) but can add life experiece to their 'book knowedge' and in general I don't find that stimulation in people my own age group.
I also have a brother that is 18 years older than me, (I was born as an aftershock) so I grew up in the era, listened to music and watched movies that interested him (while he babysat) so I find older men find me interesting cause I have an inbred love of things from their era.
As would be suggested by the comment I am NOT looking for a father figure. I am looking to keep a love alive that I CAN and DO relate to.
Not many people my age, enjoy, Elvis and The Beetles, the doors, janis joplin etc etc the list could go on but yet when you can enjoy an evening at home and listen to 'music thru the ages' WOW, it's amazing.
I don't enjoy the nightclub scene or pubs etc - I enjoy homelife, museums etc not something most 35 year olds enjoy.
I like a good novel - someone that can entertain themself while I do my thing but still want to be with me at the end of the night. I've just never found a guy in my age group that felt the same way about life as I do.
Interestlingly enough I have very few friends my own age as well. Most of my friends are 10 - 20 years older than me. The friends I do have that are my age, are friends I have had for 20+ years that have changed with me and love me just cause they do.
I can't tell you a friend I've made in the last lets say 5 years that is within a 10 year gap of me.
Trust me, I HAVE issues in life, but being attracted to older men is DEFINATELY not one of them.
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posted: 04/12/06 at 8:59 PM
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Thanks for your response, bbe.
I got the impression that the initial comment was, in fact, about the "issues" that people who are involved in these inter-generational relationships have.
I'm really not singling Yvonne out here, because I know that this is a common view of these relationships. I just thought that it may be beneficial for us to have this thread, as a way to look at ourselves and others, and to maybe learn a little something in the process.
I do believe that, when we have enough reponses, we may be able to see that there is no "answer" as to why these relationships happen.
Carry on all. 
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No matter how this all turns out...know that there is one man who loves you unconditionally darling.....unconditionally. ~LCM
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posted: 04/12/06 at 9:07 PM
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(Disclosure: I am talking about mature consenting adults here, not an adult with a minor).
When the gardener of your heart comes walking through the garden gate, do you ask for IDs to check his/her age? Of course not!
Between my husband and me, we have 13 years difference (Jacob his older than I am). We don't have any issues or problems due to our age difference (obviously, or else we wouldn't have commited to each other).
People in age gap romance have issues? Ah! Many don't He brings knowledge and tames me by moment, I bring joy, laughter and can easily pull his "dormant little boy inside of him" out very easily. We both win
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http://www.love-gardens.com
~ I feel the wind blowing through the doorway
it's telling me that the summer's gone
And the winter waits in shadow
waiting with the storm ~ Chris de Burgh "Road To Freedom"
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posted: 04/12/06 at 9:13 PM
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I think it's a great topic of discussion.
quote:
why *this* person, out of anyone else in the world?
I met my dbf at a literary conference and actually connected with him a month later on a cruise. We have common interests – reading, writing, computers to name my top few. He is the first person I have dated that hasn't called me a nerd for all the books I read. He reads as much as I do. The last time we were together - we laid across the bed and read together.
I have been approached by older men before, but he is the first one I have made a real connection with. I am 36 and I have had 2 long term relationships prior to this one both with men near my age. He and I share more in common than the two relationships combined. Age does not factor into our relationship.
Referring back to the comment made in the other thread: The reason I asked for elaboration was the first comment was far too general and I didn’t want to misinterpret where the person was coming from.
Referring to her second statement: I can say I have thought about issues we may have to deal with as we get older. For instance when I am 60 and he is 78 or (add any ages to the assumption). Well first I am not guaranteed 60 years so he may just as well out live me. I have classmates that are not living. Someone also asked me about whether I was worried about me having to take care of him when he’s older. I could become ill and he may have to take care of me. Anyone in a relationship (whether the two people are close in age or not) will have obstacles down the road. So I live in the here and now.
We are also in a LDR. I wouldn't trade him for a younger man nor a man that lives closer to me.
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"No need to worry, my Queen...you will forever be my actress on a mattress and it'll never be a weighty issue with me. I value your heart, and I know it's as light as you aspire to be. Keep up the good work, and know that your knight in shining amour is willing, able, and....waiting"! - words of love from my sweetheart.
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posted: 04/12/06 at 9:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by starnmiami
So I live in the here and now.
Thanks so much for your response, star.
(Just have to say that your pic is terrific. ).
And, I think that your comment, about living in the "here and now" is true.
When I was speaking to my man the other night, and I was just feeling down, he was telling me just that.
I have a tendency, actually, to beat myself up over the past. He has had a bit of a sordid past. No, not entirely awful, to the point where I would reject him for it, just not something that I would tell the parents about. 
But, he takes full responsibility for what he has done and the way that he has lived....and is, at the end of the day, someone that I care for very deeply, sordid past included.
But, this "living for the moment" thing. I don't think that it's necessarily that these relationships are transient...it's more of the idea that this person, for whatever reason under the sun, makes me happy...so why in the world NOT?????
Yes, the logistics are different. It's not like I am speaking to a fellow 32 year old here. But, is that really what matters?
He and I see things in a very similar fashion. I enjoy the fact that he has the "life experience" and knows what he wants. And, better yet, that I provide that for him.
Do we joke around about the age gap? Sure we do. My birthday is coming up next week...and, until the beginning of December, we will only have a 24 year gap. I keep telling him that, come next week, I will be too old for him.
But, all kidding aside....we enjoy being with each other. We relate to each other, in so many different ways. And, isn't that what matters, at the end of the day?
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No matter how this all turns out...know that there is one man who loves you unconditionally darling.....unconditionally. ~LCM
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posted: 04/12/06 at 9:28 PM
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quote:
I think - but am open to mis respresentation here, the original poster of that question was in fact referring to the age old - AGE of the person involved in the AGR - and is it legal (which also differs worldwide) rather than mean it in a derogitory way in general.
I didn't get the impression that the original poster was referring to the legality of an AGR, but I guess she would have to clear that up.
One more common interest that I love is our taste in music. I am an old school, blues and jazz person. It's what I grew up listening to.
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"No need to worry, my Queen...you will forever be my actress on a mattress and it'll never be a weighty issue with me. I value your heart, and I know it's as light as you aspire to be. Keep up the good work, and know that your knight in shining amour is willing, able, and....waiting"! - words of love from my sweetheart.
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posted: 04/12/06 at 9:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SassyNYLady
Thanks so much for your response, star.
(Just have to say that your pic is terrific. ).
Thanks! Of all the pics we took during our recent time together that one is my favorite.
quote:
Originally posted by SassyNYLady
And, I think that your comment, about living in the "here and now" is true.
But, all kidding aside....we enjoy being with each other. We relate to each other, in so many different ways. And, isn't that what matters, at the end of the day?
Living in the here and now is the best way for any relationship. If I approached a new relationship according to the things that went on in my previous ones, I would never be able to have a successful relationship.
I agree at the end of the day that is all that matters. Does he float your boat? Flip your switch? Make your heart go pitter patter? and any of those other corny sayings.
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"No need to worry, my Queen...you will forever be my actress on a mattress and it'll never be a weighty issue with me. I value your heart, and I know it's as light as you aspire to be. Keep up the good work, and know that your knight in shining amour is willing, able, and....waiting"! - words of love from my sweetheart.
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posted: 04/12/06 at 9:56 PM
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I think what needs or was asked is why we choose these relationships and WHY we choose to stay in them, over and above the normal issues that face us.
Older partner dying sooner etc.
that said, we have to admit we have a rather biast opinion going on, on this thread as most of the posters are mature adults with valid reasoning.
That said, In my 30's I look back to my 20's or even teen years and my reasons for being involved with older men in those times was WAY different to what they are now.
In my teens I didn't want a bumbling teen trying to have sex with me cause I'd been over exposed and thanks but no thanks - I wanted a guy that wasn't just all about getting into my pants.
In my 20's gys my age became slightly more interesting but then again it was about me and my issues and when I met one that was reasonibly normal or so I thought, I latched on to him and well let him get to the point he became my husband and it was all about I didn't know ME or want to face the consequences of being ME. It was a disaster.
Now, I'm just relaxed, it's all about me and why I find a guy intersting. I don't care if he's younger older black or white just that he is intellectually stimulating, he turns me on physically that I want to get to know him.
It's about me not being predjudiced and having a load of 'life experience' and my OWN personality and perspective in place.
It's about me not caring what the world thinks but seeing that I have a man that is mine for me that appeals to me on levels that are important to a relationship.
Can we discuss sex, finance, business, do we enjoy our private time cause even there we have things in common
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posted: 04/12/06 at 10:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by babyblueyes1
I think what needs or was asked is why we choose these relationships and WHY we choose to stay in them, over and above the normal issues that face us.
I'll speak for myself and my husband: We didn't choose "this kind of relationship". When we met, we were looking for nothing, period. We met, with time we grew closer together and our relationship followed.
Why did we choose to stay in our relationship? Hehe, for the same reason people chose to stay in a relationship that isn't laced with an age gap factor: True love, a very solid friendship and complicity in life.
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http://www.love-gardens.com
~ I feel the wind blowing through the doorway
it's telling me that the summer's gone
And the winter waits in shadow
waiting with the storm ~ Chris de Burgh "Road To Freedom"
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posted: 04/12/06 at 10:28 PM
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I look at MY MAN....and I say to myself, "wow, you really stepped in it this time".
But, to get back to the posting that prompted my orginal post here.
I wonder who anyone is to say that "their love" is any more pure...or better....than anyone else's.
Okay, so you have been married for 30, 40 or 50 years. So the hell what? I mean, seriously. Do you have "the key" which gives you any sort of "inside track" as to what *true love* is? I mean, aside from the fact that you married a contemporary, so the law of averages would dictate that you would have many, many year of happiness.
Everyone has their issues. And, if they deny the fact that their partner "gives them something" that the rest of the civilized world would look at as "weird", they are fooling themselves.
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No matter how this all turns out...know that there is one man who loves you unconditionally darling.....unconditionally. ~LCM
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posted: 04/13/06 at 12:23 AM
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Firstly, let it be understood that I totally and absolutely believe that what two consenting adults choose to do, within the law, and without harming others, should be no one else's business. Secondly, I want to say that I am personally not against age gap relationships, even though sometimes I may come-off as if I do.
That said, I understand this thread topic to be a spin-off from a comment I made on another thread, and as per this host's request, I indeed intend to keep it civil on my part.
Intuitively, I know that people in age gap relationships are in them for the same kinds of reasons people are in any other kind of relationships, and all people enter into relationships for reasons, but let's hold that thought for a minute.
What gets to me sometimes in discussions about age gaps is that people are too quick to defend, even when not offended, and there goes the thread. Also, there are those whose answer to every question/dilemma is, "age doesn't matter, or age is just a number." Personally, I would love to hear some real honest discussions sometimes, for certainly, there are pros and cons to age gap relationships. There are advantages and disadvantages. There are also a host of informative and interesting reasons why some people choice older/younger, but rather than honestly discuss these issues, most tend to stifle them, paint a rosy picture, and show only the bright side. Well, I think that to do this is to deliberately deceive, to perpetuate a lie.
With relationships in general being challenging enough, I am not convinced that all age gaps (or as many as most are claiming), are all peaches and cream. Indeed, many of the sagas in the Age Gap Forum need to be moved over to the Fantasy Forum if some are not going to be truthful and realistic about them.
I am not suggesting that age differences in relationships are problematic due to age, but age can in fact present problems that are not peculiar to any other relationship, and it would be nice to hear some of those areas explored sometimes.
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People don't see things as things are. They see them as they are.
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posted: 04/13/06 at 2:22 AM
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Honestly, I think there are plenty of people with these kinds of relationships with issues... and plenty who are in less than healthy age gap relationships.
But that is a generalization that cannot be applied to ALL of us... but, like all stereotypes, it is a stereotype for a reason.
But not everyone seeks these out, has ulterior motives, is looking to be taken care of, thinks they're more mature than people their own age, etc. Sometimes two people just meet and happen to click for no other reason than the fact that they are just very similar people who get along very well...
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http://www.mindtheagegap.com/forum
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Re: Who me? Defend age gap relationships? posted: 04/13/06 at 5:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SassyNYLady
It has been mentioned that "people in generational gap relationships have some personal issues going on".
....I suppose the ultimate question is, why *this* person, out of anyone else in the world?
These two statements are really significant points relating to AGRs.
In my case, the AGR issue is that I would be the older woman to a younger man. Personally, I don't have a problem with it if we were in a vacuum or an island. But the "issues" or problems related to the Age Gap when I think of it are almost entirely related to or based on what other people think and sociey in general...for me anyway.
I'm not one to worry generally about what other people think, but in this case I tend to think about what the family and friends of the younger man would think of me and also would think of him being interested in me. If that makes any sense. I can't quite place what the core of that worry is yet. I have that feeling that others will wonder what he sees in me...I mean a young man who most would expect to want someone his age. So I question myself is that just my ego or am I really thinking of him? Also, yes...I do sometimes think...does he have some "issue" that causes him to be attracted to a woman so much older than him?
I don't like that I even worry about what others think but if the predominant view is a certain way and we go against those expectations, then people will question it and no matter how much we may not care...I keep thinking it can't help but affect our relationship somehow and we have to be realistic about how to deal with it.
I'm not saying what other people think would prevent me from furthering the relationship with this younger man...but it definitely is a factor in hesitating and struggling with whether this is something real or just a romantic fantasy.
And why *this* person? That's a good question. I wonder if this person simply represents something to me...trying to recapture youth...or if it is really HIM I am falling in love with. But I suppose that could be said about any type of relationship...no matter what the age gap.
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Live in a way that leaves no regrets.
Strive most to inderstand what you fear most.
To change our lives, we must first change our minds.
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posted: 04/13/06 at 10:00 PM
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Thanks for your response Yvonne, and for "keeping it civil". This is the kind of dialogue that I was hoping to open up with my thread, and used your statement as a springboard for it.
You speak about some on here not being "truthful" or "realistic" about their relationships. I wonder how you would like to see people be more truthful about them when they speak on here. For example, should I have some sort of caveat on my posts here, no matter the subject, saying "yes, I am in a 25 year age gap relationship, and X,Y and Z are the issues we are dealing with."?
As with any other post, if someone comes out and asks about a particular issue, and I feel that I can respond, I will. But, I'm also not going to be a "harbinger of doom" about it all either.
If someone asks about particular issues in the AG realm, I will be happy to tell them about my experiences.
Just like in the CR forum. This issue comes up quite frequently. Someone will ask about a particular issue, and a person will come on and start going off about the "non-reality" of cyber relationships, and just generally spouting off about these relationships in general.
We hear very often about how these are "support forums", and I think that people take it to the extreme sometimes. "Support" is not all about "tee hee, it's all good". Sometimes, within the context of a question posted, the best support that we can give is to speak about our experiences and inform people of some possible hurdles that they may have to face.
Is "age just a number"? I think we've hashed through that issue already.
Are there issues that face these relationships? Sure there are. But, are they appropriate to bring up in every post that is made? No, they're not.
I, for one, am aware of the issues that face my own relationship. (And, some of them are probably similar to those that others face here). But, if someone is coming on, sharing their happiness, or asking a question that has nothing to do with these issues, why should I even mention them at that point?
And, the same holds true if I come on here, and share something good about my relationship. At that point in time, I don't want to hear from the "harbingers of doom".
If I want people's advice on a particular issue, I will ask for it.
Insofar as "defensiveness" goes. I think that just comes with the turf. I, for one, am sick and tired of telling the people close to me about my man and getting the initial, "oh, so it's a daddy complex thing, eh?". It's like it's an automatic "write off" of the relationship as something that couldn't possibly be "right" or "love".
So, for me, it's more of a "knee jerk" reaction to it all. However, if someone comes to me and poses the question, like I did at the beginning of this thread: "why *this* person?", I will be happy to answer it.
I may not agree with all on here, but I don't think that, if asked outright, any of these people are out here to "deliberately deceive". Would any of the "regulars" on here say that their relationship was even close to perfect? I don't think so.
Should there be more threads regarding the issues particular to AGR's? Sure. But, as you mentioned, Yvonne, these things tend to descend into chaos within the first page.
But, I don't think that the solution is to be upfront about all of the issues of AGR's constantly. I believe that *that* would take away from the enjoyment of these relationships.
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No matter how this all turns out...know that there is one man who loves you unconditionally darling.....unconditionally. ~LCM
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posted: 04/14/06 at 1:03 AM
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I follow your bouncing ball, Sassy, and for the most part, such is my stance as well.
Indeed, if someone in an age gap relationship comes on to share a particular happy experience, or to share some joy, it would be very much inappropriate, not to mention unnecessary, for a poster with an issue of his own to pee on that host's parade. However, such was not the kinds of situations I was talking about. I was referring to those posts specifically tailored to paint age gap as a totally pretty picture, even when the proposed dilemma is negative, even when giving the pros and cons are more apropos.
A hypothetical: "I am 18 y/o and find myself falling for a 50 y/o. What do you think our chances of success are?"
"Girl/boy, go for it. It is all about love. Age doesn't matter. Age is just a number. Don't listen to negative people. They don't know your heart. It is all about your heart." Such is not support. Such are not facts. It is deceptive. It is being dishonest. It is possibly protecting or justifying one's own like decision. In short, it is all a bunch of pure, unadulterated, barnyard sh*t.
Why not assure the host that age gap can and do work well, but it is a matter of what each partner is seeking, whether each of their needs can be met in that relationship. Why not let the host know that if s/he and his/her partner are considering children, they must be aware of the obstacles as well as the beauties, and that after taking it all into consideration, if none of it matters to them as a couple, then it really doesn't matter. Also, since the host asked for our thoughts, it is only fair to make him aware that with such a wide gap, people will make negative comments, give weird looks, ask certain questions, so the couple must be ready for such, strong enough to handles it, etc.
By no means was I suggesting that everytime someone in the Age Gap Forum presents a dilemma, the negative side should always be given. It would all depend on the contents of the questions, and even then, it might be unnecessary to steal someone's thunder. I was talking about those overwheming number of posts that are totally emptied of honest information, but chock full of lies and defenses.
A guilty conscience needs no accusing, indeed, so in the spirit of remaining civil, hopefully no one will take what I said as a personal attack, as I was only trying to attack the issue, no anyone.
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People don't see things as things are. They see them as they are.
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posted: 04/14/06 at 6:42 PM
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Thanks again for your words Yvonne.
And, I completely agree with you about the "tee hee, everything's going to be fine" response. In any forum, this attitude really irks me.
Taking my relationship out of it for a moment (since we are *both* older)....there have been quite a few times that I have seen the "tee hee" attitude on this forum. Not as much recently, though.
People come in here, in the student/teacher scenario....and I wish that there would be those regulars who actually have been in these relationships to give the "straight shit" as to what is going on. The only student/teacher relationship that I ever observed personally was when I was in law school. And, even we law students, who should have been "mature", gossiped to no end about all of it...these are the realities.
I do agree with you that, in certain circumstances, people are way too eager to say "yeah there'll be issues, but go for it girl....this is love we're talking about...".
Maybe there should be more of a balance in how things are approached. Instead of reinforcing the "I am mature for my age, so this is so right" attitude, let's talk turkey here....let's speak, as you say Yvonne, about the stares, the family and friends "not understanding"....
Now, bringing my own relationship back into the mix. Personally speaking, I couldn't care less as to what the average person on the street thinks about my relationship. Do we get "stared at"? I'm sure we do. Does it bother me? Well, if I haven't really noticed the stares, I guess not.
But, with that being said, I also realize that I am almost 33. Ten years ago, this would have made a lot more of a difference to me.
I am currently stressed out about telling my father about this relationship. (For the record, it's the two divorces that will freak him out, no so much the age gap....or so mom tells me). These people ARE important to me, so what they think does matter to me.
If the age thing comes up? I will honestly reply, "It is what it is". I am prepared for the questioning from dad about this. And, I will certainly not take the defensive tact here, or the "tee hee, age is just a number" route. For whatever reason, I am happy with this relationship, and THAT is what I want to stress to him.
Anyway, I know I'm rambling about that, but it's been at the forefront of my mind lately, for reasons I hope are obvious.
So, with all of this being said....I know that what I am going to say next will ruffle some feathers here, but I will say it anyway.
Perhaps those of us who *are* older chronologically can step up and take more of a "realistic" stand here.
No, not as the "harbingers of doom" or anything like that. But, maybe we can try to think about the way *we* were at 18, and approach these questions from that standpoint.
At the end of the day, I feel that the age thing "just is". But, I do know that I can be more sensitive to what Yvonne is pointing out.
No one here *knows* us, or is in a position to make judgments about our relationships. So, perhaps we can bear this in mind when we respond to queries on here.
I don't know....just a thought.
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No matter how this all turns out...know that there is one man who loves you unconditionally darling.....unconditionally. ~LCM
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posted: 04/14/06 at 8:56 PM
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Congrats, everyone! Interesting how we all managed to get through almost two whole pages civilly. Woo-hoo (lol)!
Sassy: Nothing in the world beats understanding, and without a doubt, effective communication always brings that about. Indeed, people must learn that understanding is not necessarily synonymous with agreeing. One need never agree with another in order to understand that person.
Given that we all come from our own places in life, and are prisoners of our own times, naturally, our views will differ, but such is actually a good thing. That is how we grow, how we learn, how we become attuned to reality. That is indeed, how we escape from our boxes.
When I see a couple some twenty years apart in age, for example, I do look sometimes because it is no more common than seeing a midget and a giant parading around as a couple, but as far as being bothered by it, making faces, staring, or any such madness, of course, I wouldn't do such a thing. Okay, so I lied. If the male is drop-dead gorgeous, my eyes may linger (lol). On a serious note, people don't bother me as far as the choices they make for themselves, choices that don't hurt anyone else. After all, no one chose my man for me, so what right do I have to match make, or to otherwise decide who is best for whom? What business is it of mine?
My stance is, whether talking about age gap relationships or even about the weather, honesty has its place. Also, one can be honest without being cruel (oops. I have to remember that (lol)! Seriously though, age gap is a touchy subject, but defending and justifying too often get in the way of actually offering support. Keeping someone in the dark to perpetuate what might be our own fantasy is really not helping at all. However, as you and I wholly agree, stealing someone's thunder for the hell of it can be just as bad.
Again, I just saw too much defending and justifications happening on those threads and too little honesty and reasonings, and seems anyone who joins in, if not to say, "you, go, girl/boy," that person is guranteed a bad day, if anyone here gets my drift.
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People don't see things as things are. They see them as they are.
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